The Coffee Chat (#58)
My conversation with Ian Dinwiddy - Founder of Inspiring Dads, ex Management Consultant, National League Hockey Umpire and Dad to two!
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Hi there 👋🏽
A topic I have wanted to explore for some time has been the idea of someone being “Objectively successful, subjectively miserable”
But guess what? Taylor Swift beat me to it.
Her new song - I can do it with a broken heart she does a wonderful job of capturing this idea of being successful yet miserable.
Is there a lesson there?
Well, maybe there are two.
Firstly, don't assume you know how someone is doing or feeling based solely on what you can see on the surface.
And secondly, if you ever find yourself "crying and being productive and feeling broken but still running," do yourself a favor and don't get stuck there. It's suffocating. Find something that lets you breathe!
☕ Now, on to today’s coffee chat…
Meet Ian Dinwiddy
In Ian’s words “There is a growing awareness that building a diverse and inclusive workplace is not a challenge that can be easily solved by only creating initiatives aimed solely at women. Initiatives to support women in the workplace remain of crucial importance, but an additional focus on men has the benefit of re-framing the conversation away from the prevailing gender stereotypes of career and “all in” breadwinner. The truth is that, although they may struggle to admit it, (even to themselves), men are as likely as women to struggle with the pressures of balancing work and life, pulled in different directions between their providing and caring roles. With the right policies and support it is possible to reduce the financial and culture barriers that make men reluctant to appear anything other than "all in" for work. The reality is that men are worried that their careers will suffer and by association their families. When working dads are confident that they can be a great dad without sacrificing a great career, we can normalize flexible working and parental leave for all which is good for well-being, gender diversity and closing the gender pay gap.”
I could not agree more with Ian, these are structural issues which need structural solutions and the sooner we stop framing them as “women / mother’s issues” the better off we will all be.
I had an absolutely wonderful time chatting with Ian and getting a peek into how he thinks. I am so excited to share this chat with the rest of the world.
Below is my conversation with Ian…
Please tell us a little bit about yourself and your family
First and foremost, I'm a dad to a 14-year-old daughter and an 11-year-old son. My wife Lisa is a lawyer. When we met, there was quite a gender pay gap, and it wasn't in my favor. She was earning more than I was; I was working as a management consultant.
The journey to what I do now was about seeing things through a different lens and embracing non-traditional roles. As a couple, I take on the role of the school run dad. Lisa works full time, and I fit coaching and consultancy work, webinars, workshops, and public speaking for businesses around the school run.
Essentially, our family dynamic reflects a kind of traditional gender role reversal, with Lisa as the primary breadwinner and me as the primary carer. However, I believe these definitions don't fully capture the diverse ways individual families navigate work and family life.
I'm the founder of Inspiring Dads. Since 2018, I've specialized in supporting new dads through the parental transition, particularly during the first year of fatherhood. These men often reach out to me through corporate organizations after taking extended parental leave, such as paternity leave or shared parental leave. I work with them one-on-one, as well as conducting group coaching, workshops, and webinars for organizations.
According to the NCT, the number of men who become depressed in the first year after becoming a dad is double that of the general population, with first time dads being particularly vulnerable. One in ten dads-to-be will also become depressed during their partner’s pregnancy. When we focus on new dads’ well-being and transition to fatherhood we help transform workplace culture and enhancing gender equality at home and at work.
So, your elder daughter was well past her preschooler age when you decided to go independent. What was it that made you decide to make that shift? Was it a conscious conversation between you and your wife, or was there something that triggered it?
In 2010, when my daughter was born, I initially went down to four days a week while still working full-time. I took fully paid parental leave for six months and then looked after my daughter full time until she was about 16 months old. After that, she went into nursery a couple of days a week, and I freelanced as a consultant for my previous companies, specializing in operational change, particularly in retail and manufacturing.
When my second child was born in 2013, I was still freelancing, working two or three days a week, with some overlap in nursery schedules. I didn't start my coaching journey until later. In 2015, my wife attended a women's leadership development course at her law firm, where she was introduced to coaching. She came home one day and said, "This coaching stuff seems a lot like the things you really enjoy from your consultancy work - helping people make unlocks within themselves."
So, I discovered coaching thanks to my wife's tip, and it took me a couple of years to complete the training and get my coaching qualification. Then came the challenge of business development, which I hadn't fully appreciated before. It took some time to develop the idea of what Inspiring Dads might look like. Initially, I focused on coaching individual men privately, but I realized they weren't progressing quickly enough along the buyer's journey. They either didn't recognize their pain points enough to act on them, didn't know where to look for help, or weren't comfortable seeking it.
From a business perspective, it was challenging to build a model around that, especially targeting men. So, I started looking at the opportunities within corporations, where more and more businesses were offering extended leave for dads. These dads were facing return-to-work challenges similar to those traditionally associated with maternity leave. I began working directly with companies.
I work with more men now, and I feel privileged because the men I work with are generally having a positive experience. They're getting well-paid leave and the opportunity to connect with their children in ways that many men don't have access to.
So, I think there are a few interesting things here. First, I think it's smart for organizations to offer coaching because it provides social proof. From what I've observed with my partner, my brother, and my dad, many men look for that social proof. If their organization says, "Go talk to a coach," they're more likely to do it. Normalizing parental leave is crucial too. A few weeks back during International Women's Day, I was chatting with a few folks and emphasizing that it shouldn't just be paid maternity leave; it should be paid parental leave because both parents are involved in bringing a child into the world. The more we normalize both genders taking time off to care for their children, the better. Eventually, when men and women who are taking parental leave now move into leadership positions, it will become so normalized that taking time off for caregiving won't be questioned (I hope).
The question though that I had for you is when you go and pitch Inspiring Dads to businesses, do you experience any sort of bias and shock where people are like is this really a men's problem?
So, I've noticed that the dynamics have changed a lot in the 14 years since I became a dad. Initially, when I stopped working, it was quite uncommon for men to do so. There was this perception that men didn't have the skills to look after young children, and there wasn't a social framework supporting men taking leave. Shared parental leave, for example, wasn't introduced in the UK until 2015, five years after I left my job. So, what I was doing was definitely outside the norm.
There was also a bias, interestingly, a female bias, I think, toward men taking leave. Some women felt like men encroaching on what had traditionally been seen as a women-only space was problematic. I remember a conversation outside the school gate where one mum made a negative comment about a dad who was doing more work from home. It was almost like there was this expectation that men should be working and providing, and any deviation from that was seen as abnormal.
On a more corporate level, though, I find that the biggest advocates for equal parental leave are often women. They understand the importance of it. Men get it too, but they're wary of coming across as men's rights activists. So, equal parental leave is a popular topic among HR professionals, especially those who understand the importance of gender equality both at home and in the workplace.
Actually during International Women's Day this year, I spoke at a Women's Leadership Conference about why equal parental leave is crucial for women's career progression. The majority of the audience was female, and I explained how gender equality at work is impossible without gender equality at home. When men take parental leave, it becomes the norm in organizations, and that's what we need to aim for.
You need everyone to be seen as equally likely to take leave. We need to energize a new generation of men to become parents, take leave, build softer skills, empathy, understanding, and a desire to work more flexibly and creatively. The reality is, in many organizations, if men start taking parental leave, it becomes the norm.
In the last 14 years, the assumptions and biases have changed a lot. When I was a stay-at-home dad, I didn't know that was going to be my path. But looking back, I can see how things have shifted. Even in everyday conversations, like those in the supermarket, where people would say things like, "Oh, you're giving her a day off?" I would correct them and explain. For example, 14 years back there weren't even places for men to change their children's diapers in many places.
But things are improving. So, it's important to keep pushing for change.
I think a lot of folks don't realize that gender norms and patriarchy trap both genders equally. Many men feel just as trapped because they want to spend time with their kids too.
The way I see it, the right operating model is whatever works for your household. As long as there's autonomy and it's a decision that makes sense for you and your family, that's what matters.
Like in your case the traditional gender roles are reversed in your household and that seems to be working beautifully for you all…
You need structures in place to allow people to make authentic choices. And you're absolutely right about dads wanting to be more involved. There's lots of evidence suggesting there's an unmet desire and interest. When organizations enhance parental leave or paternity leave and make it well-paid and culturally acceptable, men overwhelmingly take advantage of it.
I saw some interesting research that found ~25% of men in traditional roles at home felt forced into those roles, feeling like they didn't have a choice but to be the sole provider. So, those gender norms can be traps for everyone.
But I think we're increasingly seeing men feeling confident enough to say they're not happy with the status quo. It's becoming better understood that a blend of roles and creating frameworks that allow people to make choices that are right for their family unit is what helps everyone thrive at home and at work.
Through your coaching work you meet and interact with a lot of new dads. What is top of mind for most of these men?
So, it's important to understand that the men I coach have already made active decisions to take leave. But for the vast majority of men, this isn't accessible. In the UK, there's a two or three-tier system in terms of parental leave, ranging from well-paid leave to no leave at all for the self-employed.
The men I work with are already making gender-equitable decisions within their own relationships regarding caregiving. They're hands-on and know they can take leave.
What they worry about is how to "have it all." They want to know how to have a successful career and still be successful at home without sacrificing either. So, how do they balance being a great dad with having a great career? That's the challenge.
Ah that perennial question! Not very different from what women with kids think about. Do you have a silver bullet solution? If there is a secret sauce I want it.
I started writing this newsletter in the quest to find the answer to this question!
There are several phases to go through. First, be honest with yourself about what you want: who you want to be as a person, what you want to do, and what you want to have. Be really honest with yourself first and foremost. Think of it as a coaching exercise. Write those things down and then work out what your priorities are, both as an individual and with your partner if you're in a relationship.
It's essential to understand that sometimes it's not just about having things; it's about who you are being or what you are doing. Once you're clear about your own priorities, bring your partner into the discussion. If you have kids who are old enough, include them too.
For our family, one of our top priorities was to send both our children to private school at the age of 11. This was something we wanted to do before anything else, even before spending money on home renovations or other things.
By doing this, you end up with a clear hierarchy of what's important. Once you know what your priorities are as a family, you can then figure out how much money you need to achieve those things.
Often, our income ends up dictating how we spend our money, but it's healthier to determine what you really want first and then figure out how much you need to achieve it.
Sometimes, people get caught in a routine of just trying to make more money, assuming that more money will make them happier. However, true happiness comes from understanding what truly makes you happy.
Understanding what "having it all" means comes from defining what "all" means to you personally. It's about understanding your own definition of success and fulfillment and working towards that.
Love that focus on being intentional about what “all” means
I think the challenge here is that not enough people have that conversation with themselves to understand what their genuine priorities are. Moreover, these conversations aren't happening consistently enough within relationships.
It's crucial to have these conversations, especially before having children. You need to discuss your direction of travel as a couple. Questions like, what do we want our future to look like? How will we handle things when children enter the picture?
You might be equitable at home until you have children, but they can throw a curveball if you haven't thought about who will take leave and what it will look like when both partners want to work.
It's quite interesting coaching men who realize that their wives are more driven in their careers. Sometimes, they've had to have a conversation about whose career takes priority.
Unfortunately, not enough couples go through this process of being open and honest about what's important to them. Once you know what's important, everything else starts falling into place, and the choices you make are driven by a solid foundation.
The other thing that I tell all the folks that I coach is to understand the concept of the second shift and the mental load. The second shift is the physical activity of what most of us in the western world do when we come back from work - cooking, cleaning, child rearing - these are things that are very obvious and men need to be more mindful about these tasks because regardless of income women tend to take on more of these tasks at the home. Women need to give some of these tasks up and men need to step up at homes and start owning them end to end.
What's the best thing you have watched recently?
Ted Lasso – late to the party, didn’t gel with first episode and rediscovered a couple of months ago. Binge watched. So many life lessons with characters who I really cared about.
What’s the best thing you have read recently?
Dr Eliza Filby’s newsletter she studies “society through the prism of age and generations - from Baby Boomers to Generation Alpha - examining how the traditional lifecycle is being reordered and remade in the 21st century.”
What’s the best thing you have heard recently?
Diary of a CEO edition with Daniel Priestly. Daniel is my go to entrepreneur guru / influencer, I love his content. This episode is packed full of insight for building a business.
🤓 Open tabs…
(I have modeled this section after those “open tabs” that we all have with a few (okay 30-40) interesting links that we promise we will eventually get to one day. These are the links that I had open for sometime that I finally got to …)
⭐Taylor Swift and the Good Girl Trap
But I have also come to understand that trying to fit into society’s understanding of a “good girl” is a trap, the same way that the “model minority” and the “good gay” and the “good fatty” are all traps. Even when you succeed at it you lose, because these roles are all ultimately means of containment: of circumscribing power by putting exacting, contradictory, standards on the way you’re able to “appropriately” wield it.
⭐Why we have no work/life balance + how to fix it
Simone Stolzoff, author of The Good Enough Job and workplace expert, discusses the many ways work has taken on an outsized role in our lives, what it’s costing us, and exactly how to fix it.
⭐POV: Centering work on men doesn’t work. Here’s a better way forward + 27 Ways to Create a Women-Centered Workplace
From the very architecture of our offices to the traditional structure of a 9-to-5 workday, our workplace culture was built with men in mind. But what would happen if we tore it all down and rebuilt it, from scratch, thinking about women instead?
📖 My private thoughts from my very public diary…
(Sometimes on X (Twitter), sometimes on Threads)
I would love to hear from you, feedback is always welcome!
And if you happen to know an inspiring working parent who should be featured in a future edition (or if you yourself are one) - please do get in touch
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Disclaimer: All views expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer