The Coffee Chat (#63)
My conversation with Marzia Arico: Former MD, Livework studio, Founder, Marzia Studio, Editor of Design Mavericks and a Mom!
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Hi there 👋🏽
On Sunday, July 21st, something significant happened. Without delving into the politics of it all, I witnessed the moment and spent a few days processing it. The biggest takeaway for me has been that this act is a prime example of how powerful men can be allies to women, minorities, or anyone held back by dominant societal and cultural structures.
When people cling to power and old structures, they inhibit progress. It’s essential to step aside at the right moment to create space for new possibilities. To make meaningful change, we need powerful men to continue being sponsors and mentors, helping to build up others and, when the time is right, stepping aside.
This shift can lead to a surge of energy, excitement, and invigoration within the community. The US has always been at the forefront of popular culture, and it’s easier to change norms when you can see an example right before your eyes. Maybe, just maybe, what happened recently will inspire more people to do the same in their own contexts.
☕ Now, on to today’s coffee chat…
Meet Marzia Aricò
With over 15 years of experience as a design leader, Marzia excels in building and scaling strategic design teams to align with business and organizational goals. Her expertise in developing customer-centric, decision-making infrastructure is backed by her extensive experience with large, complex organizations and a PhD in Organizational Studies.
She’s also the author of an upcoming graphic novel on design leaders, set to be published by the end of 2024. Additionally, she writes a newsletter that I adore called, Design Mavericks and hosts the video series Design Voices Elevated, focusing on women design leaders.
As a consultant, coach, and public speaker, Marzia continues to shape the future of design leadership.
Below is my conversation with Marzia…
Please tell us a little bit about yourself and your family
I was born in Sicily, on an island that is closer to Africa than to Europe. I grew up between volcanoes and the seaside. I quickly decided to get into design because my father, who is an architect, inspired me. He used to, and still does, show me how to envision what a pile of bricks could become, imagining worlds that didn’t exist.
When it came to university, I chose design because I wanted to do something that was closer to people’s hands. I enjoyed the smaller scale of design compared to architecture. I studied industrial design and worked in that field in Italy, dealing with automobiles and other fancy things. However, I soon realized that spending hours or even weeks perfecting the curve of a chair that only a hundred people could afford was a waste of my skills. I knew I could use my skills for something more impactful.
So, I left Italy when I was 20 and never looked back. I moved to London and studied innovation management. There, I learned how design could be applied to a wide range of challenges beyond physical products. Coming from a distant place with imperfect English, I had to seize every opportunity to create my future. One pivotal moment was when London Business School offered five seats to University of the Arts students for a new Creative Ventures program. I applied, got a spot, and spent almost a year with MBAs. This experience opened my eyes to the stark differences between the collaborative world of design and the task-oriented world of business.
Since then, I’ve wanted to work with organizations to fix them. I believe organizations are the backbone of our economy, employing millions of people, yet many are designed based on outdated models. Design has a crucial role in transforming these organizations. I got into service design because it is the most strategic field related to organizational transformation. I did a PhD in organizational studies at Copenhagen Business School, despite initial resistance from business schools that wanted me to earn an MBA first. I found an enlightened professor who gave me a chance, and I also did an exchange at the University of Sydney.
Over the past 20 years, I’ve lived in London, Oslo, Sydney, and for the last 10 years, the Netherlands. I worked as a design director and then as the managing director of Livework Studio, a leading service design agency. There, I explored the boundaries of what service design can achieve in organizations, working on large design-driven transformations for clients like JP Morgan and Adidas.
When my son was born in 2018, I was away from home a lot due to my job. In 2019, I was in London from Tuesday to Thursday every week. We had a babysitter, and my husband was very present, which made a big difference. We’re really 50/50 in parenting, which helps a lot. We live in a city without family, so we had to arrange childcare accordingly. Fortunately, we live in a country where childcare is affordable and subsidized by the state, making it possible for us to manage.
However, last year fall, I decided I no longer wanted to work for someone else. I quit and set up as a solopreneur. It wasn’t an easy choice because you get tunnel vision, thinking the next step is always a higher role with more money. But I didn’t want that anymore. When I left, I received job offers from big corporate clients with big titles and salaries, but I felt physically sick at the thought. I just wanted to be independent. Now, I’m writing my graphic novel and showing my child the courage to follow one’s instincts.
So even before we get into some of the choices you've made and the decisions behind them, tell me a bit more about your family. You mentioned your son is five years old and before we hit record you mentioned you're expecting a second child. Can we go back to the time when you were doing your PhD and making all these significant professional changes?
I was pregnant during the last year of my PhD, and I submitted the final version of my thesis just a week before delivering my son. It was the hardest thing I've ever done because my brain felt completely melted. Writing a PhD is not an easy task; it's very intense and demanding. I kept telling myself that I had to finish it before giving birth because if I didn't, there would be no way to submit it within the next year, and I would lose precious time. I really wanted to complete it within the four-year timeframe.
Fortunately, my son was born a week later than planned. If he had been born on his due date, I wouldn't have managed to submit on time. So, I submitted my thesis around my due date, and a week later, I became a mom. My son even attended my PhD defense at three or four months old. Completing my PhD was very important to me because it represented the closing of one chapter and the opening of another. I saw friends who were in similar situations but didn't manage to finish, and it dragged on longer for them, which led to feelings of guilt. I was determined not to let that happen to me.
Kudos to you for powering through. Now as you advanced in your career, the amount of work and responsibilities likely increased. Were there any hard trade-offs you had to make?
I wanted to show my child that a woman can and must pursue her passions. I wanted them to see that I was always the one earning the most in our household, even though my husband has a very good job. Being very driven, I became the youngest director in my organization by far—the next youngest person was 42, and I was 32. I was pushing the boundaries of what was possible, representing a new way of thinking and growing.
For me, it was important for my child to see this reality. I grew up in a household where my father was an entrepreneurial creative, and my mother had a stable, low-risk job working for the state. I wanted my child to understand that this dynamic is normal. It was never a question for them; it was just part of our routine. I would leave on Tuesday and come back on Thursday, and that was how it was.
The most difficult part was dealing with people around me who tried to make me feel guilty. They would ask why I didn't feel guilty about being away from my child. But my child was spending quality time with their father and having fun. When I returned, we had quality time together. It's not like I was away for months; it was just part of our routine. When I'm with my child, I'm fully present. We do a lot of activities together and truly enjoy our time.
Many people also questioned what I would do with a second child. They suggested having another child quickly to get it over with, but I wanted to enjoy the process and feel ready. It's about finding a balance that works for you.
I also think I'm a better parent because I work. My brain is stimulated, and I feel like I'm contributing something to the world. For so many women the guilt comes from the people around them who question their choices
You need to be a satisfied and fulfilled individual before you can have a healthy relationship with your partner, your child, or anyone else. If you’re not good with yourself, you can’t give anything meaningful to those around you.
For me, it’s always been important to prioritize my own needs and career satisfaction. When I take care of myself and fulfill my own needs, I’m better equipped to support and be present for others. If I'm not in a good place personally, I can't effectively contribute to or support anyone else.
You seem like someone who’s super driven and successful, making significant choices in life. Has your definition of ambition and success changed now that you're pivoting to become a solopreneur? Have you redefined what success or ambition means to you compared to a decade ago? Are you now less focused on titles and more on other aspects of your career and personal fulfillment?
First of all, having a child wasn't the reason for changing my view. It was actually because a few years ago, my husband was diagnosed with a very serious disease, cancer. It was a challenging year and a half, but fortunately, he’s fine now. He underwent surgery and treatment, and everything is good.
That experience was eye-opening for me, particularly in terms of how I use my time. We often assume we have all the time in the world, but that’s not always the case. I began to question whether I was happy with what I was doing and if I found meaning in it. I realized that I had been operating in tunnel vision, and the things I was doing no longer seemed to align with my values. Once that realization hit, I knew I couldn’t continue with what I was doing because it felt meaningless.
This led to a period of reflection. When I decided to leave my previous role, I had no clear idea of what I would do next, but I was actually excited about it. It became a time of exploration—discovering what brings me meaning and joy, and what excites me. It’s a process of realization, not something you figure out overnight. It’s about nurturing that creative, almost childish part of yourself that wants to explore different things. While making money is important, I’m at a point in my career where I can do that in many ways. It’s no longer a major concern.
I am sorry you had to go through that experience. That must have been incredibly hard.
I think in many ways, you’re someone who’s taking a significant risk and chance. I often speak with people who become parents, and they sometimes feel like they need to play it safe. They think, “If it were just me, I could take risks, but now that I have a child and a family, I need to choose the safer path.”
Everyone’s situation is different, of course, but how do you manage to quiet that inner voice that suggests playing it safe? Have you found ways to reduce or ignore that narrative, or does it not affect you at all?
I’m confident in my abilities, which helps a lot. When I resigned and decided to take this leap, the first thing I did was buy a beach house. I used most of my savings, and my mom thought I’d lost my mind. She couldn’t understand why I’d quit my job without knowing what I was going to do next and spend a large portion of my savings on a house. But it was something I really wanted—to live in a house overlooking the Mediterranean and write the book I’ve always wanted to write. I was confident that I’d make enough money to cover the costs.
Within a few weeks, I was already generating more than enough to support myself. For a long time, I lived below my means to avoid financial pressure. Many people end up in a trap, taking on a huge mortgage that consumes most of their salary, making it difficult to change course. Instead, I chose to buy a modest, affordable house in Rotterdam that suits our needs. The small mortgage means I don’t have the pressure of a large debt hanging over me.
This approach provides a lot of freedom and flexibility. I don’t worry about credit card debt or car payments. If my current plans don’t work out, I can always find another job. It might not be ideal, but it’s an option. I wanted to design my life in a way that allows for freedom and choice, and I want my child to see that making choices and having the freedom to pursue what you want is possible.
Absolutely. Many people fall into the trap of "golden handcuffs," where they make a lot of money but are unhappy because they've built up an unsustainable cost base. It’s a tough situation because you hate your job but feel trapped because you can’t afford to leave it.
This I think is a great point to end our discussion on. Being mindful of all the choices we make and the implications they have!
🤓 Open tabs…
(I have modeled this section after those “open tabs” that we all have with a few (okay 30-40) interesting links that we promise we will eventually get to one day. These are the links that I had open for sometime that I finally got to …)
⭐We’re All Reading Wrong
Reading, while not technically medicine, is a fundamentally wholesome activity. It can prevent cognitive decline, improve sleep, and lower blood pressure. In one study, book readers outlived their nonreading peers by nearly two years. Reading out loud, which people used to do until the growth of silent reading in the tenth century or so, can be even more beneficial. One researcher found that verbal reading stimulates the hippocampus—the area of the brain that is essential for learning and memory—more than reading silently.
⭐Gen Alpha is never told no (🎧)
A family and lifestyle content creator celebrated her oldest daughter’s 11th birthday and allowed her younger kids to blow out the candles too. This video sparked an online discussion about the downfalls of gentle parenting.
⭐Friendship and Social Fitness
If enough time elapses without regular contact, people eventually come to see their old friends not as friends at all but as strangers. Just as you’d probably feel awkward about texting or emailing a stranger out of the blue to tell them you’re thinking about them and hope they’re well, so it is with old friends.
📖 My private thoughts from my very public diary…
(Sometimes on X (Twitter), sometimes on Threads)
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And if you happen to know an inspiring working parent who should be featured in a future edition (or if you yourself are one) - please do get in touch
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Disclaimer: All views expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer