The Coffee Chat (#10)
My conversation with Carlos Escalante - An Innovation & Design leader, paternity leave advocate, and father to a 6-year-old dog & an almost 1-year-old daughter
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Hi there 👋🏽
Before we jump into today’s Coffee Chat, I wanted to share an initiative that is being supported by Samiksha Panchbhayye, who is a regular Decks and Diapers reader :)
Samiksha’a parents have been teaching in Govt schools (public schools) in India for the last 31 years. They understand the challenges that girls from underprivileged rural families experience in accessing education.
They have started an initiative called "Diya For Her" to provide guidance/scholarships to those girls who score well in competitive exams. They have been able to improve student enrollment for the National Means-Cum-Merit Scholarship (NMMS) exam from 5 students in 2019 to 29 students in 2020.
They are now looking for support to raise the funds for the 2021 scholarship exam aspirants. Here is the link where you can learn more about the initiative and contribute.
This is a great cause and if you can, I would strongly urge you to contribute.
☕ Now, on to today’s coffee chat…
Meet Carlos Escalante
Carlos is currently an Innovation and Design Manager at Market Gravity (part of Deloitte) and believes that men should play an active role as fathers and take on more of the child care responsibility.
He became a father for the first time in the middle of the pandemic and decided to take 5 months off work to be present for his wife and daughter.
I had an absolutely wonderful time chatting with Carlos and getting a peek into how he thinks about fatherhood and being a supportive husband to his wife. I am so excited to share this chat with the rest of the world.
Below is my conversation with Carlos…
Please tell us a little bit about yourself and your family
I’m Carlos, an Innovation & Design Manager at Market Gravity. I have been married for 6 years to my wonderful wife Luly, who is an independent marketing consultant. I feel like I’ve known her for a lifetime - we started dating each other back in high school! And since we got married, we've been on an adventure around the continent. We moved to Canada in 2017.
My wife and I are also parents to a 6-year-old dog, Poppy, and an almost 1-year-old daughter, Catalina.
So you have been together on an adventure around the continent - tell me more about that?
After we got married back home in Mexico I decided to pursue an MBA in the United States and my wife was extremely supportive, even though it meant her career would be paused. She was a marketing manager in Mexico so this was obviously not an easy decision for her.
In 2015 we moved to the US and I started my MBA at the University of Virginia Darden School of Business and we stayed there till I graduated in 2017. Once we moved to the US my wife started her own business, and she’s been growing her business since and doing pretty well for herself.
After my graduation I got an offer in Canada and so we packed our bags and came further north.
Were you actively looking to come to Canada or did a certain ex-President's policies play a role? I have moved around a lot and I know that moving cities and countries is hard, so I am wondering what pushed you to make this decision?
The latter.
My recruiting process got affected by these policies. I wanted to do innovation consulting and to begin with very few firms were looking to hire international students. I actually lost a formal job offer because of the whole uncertainty surrounding Work Visas.
Fortunately at that moment I was still in conversations with one of the Market Gravity leads in NYC, and ended up getting an offer to come join the then nascent Toronto team. The opportunity aligned with our goals, and it was a big relief to not be at mercy of someone’s tweets!
I had heard similar stories featuring international students in the US before. I am glad you found a home in Toronto.
Yeah, we've been able to find happiness here. It took longer than we imagined for us to expand our family, and all the moving definitely didn’t help. Finally, in the summer of 2019 we found out that we were going to be parents, everyone in our family was ecstatic about it.
My wife ended up having a great pregnancy, but the birth was a little tough because she had a long labor which finally ended with an emergency C-section. This was all happening 10 days into the pandemic so you can imagine our stress, confusion and anxiety.
I can imagine. My baby was born just before the pandemic and as soon as we settled at home the pandemic was declared. Being a first-time parent can be very stressful but this just compounds it!
Exactly. It was extremely disorienting. Our parents were planning to fly from Mexico to help with childcare in the initial few months but their flights got cancelled, and they still haven't been able to meet Catalina in person. So basically all our plans had to change. The C-section also meant that my wife's recovery was going to take a little longer than we had anticipated.
We just decided to take each day as it comes. I took two weeks of vacation at first and we felt everything was working out as the baby took to my wife, breastfeeding was going fine and we had somewhat of a schedule established.
But around a month in, we both started feeling extremely tired and stretched as we were alone with no support system or help. My wife was doing a lion's share of the work with the baby, as Catalina had reflux and couldn't take formula which meant all the feeding, during the day or night, became my wife's responsibility. She barely got a break.
Plus, I came back to work at a point where all of us were scrambling as we were still trying to figure out how to operate remotely. It all added up quickly, with very long hours at home and at work, and I quickly felt burnt out. My wife was pretty burnt out too.
So I decided this was the moment to truly show-up for my family and focus. I’d always planned to take my pat leave, and my practice’s leader was really supportive of accelerating it. I ended up taking 5 months off, and it’s one of the best decisions I’ve ever made.
I don’t think a lot of people realize how hard it was/is to become a parent for the first time in the middle of a pandemic. I mean anyway, when you become a first-time parent you're so clueless and exhausted but now on top of that, you are all alone. The isolation in fact accelerates the feeling of being burnout. And I am glad you took the 5 months off to support your wife. I think more men need to do that because at the end of the day childcare is hard, and both partners should share the responsibility.
Totally, we were both near a breaking point due to all the compounder factors happening. The first month was so exhausting we kinda deleted it from our brains and now only remember the good things. Being able to be at home full time with the baby and the house balanced things out and gave us both space to breathe.
During this time, I couldn’t help but recall those videos that play when you board a plane; “in case of emergency, make sure to put on your oxygen mask first, then help whoever’s next to you”.
To be able to care well for others, you also need to make sure you sustain yourself, and this mindset helped both of us to look out for each other, so in turn, we both can care for the kids (Poppy included!).
So how was the transition from and back to work for you?
It was an interesting process. When I first left, I had a hard time “letting go” of work for the first couple of weeks. I knew everyone on my team was stretched, so I still offered to help. But then, I reminded myself of why I was taking my leave in the first place, and it was to be solely focused on family, and I would never get this time back again.
Those five months off helped me connect deeply with my daughter, fall in love (again!) with this amazing new version of my wife, pamper my dog, and also, reconnect with myself, my core values and my passions. I took over cooking duties, and actually became a pretty good cook!
Two weeks prior to my return, I started to get anxiety and restlessness, which is a bit out of character for me. I was afraid we’d break the balance and the good dynamic we had going, and I really wanted to nail our operating model.
So what is the new operating model for you guys like? How are you making this all work?
It’s been a few months since I’ve been back, but I can say we live and die by our calendars. We share our work schedules ahead, block time for household activities, and keep each other in the loop all the time. For baby-centric activities like visits to the pediatrician, we tended to underestimate time commitments so now we add time buffers.
This has been a big change for me, as in my personal life I’ve always been more freeform, but I’ve got the support of my wife who’s very detail-oriented and a great planner. We make a really well-balanced team: she’s the type of person who can create amazing by-the-minute itineraries for a trip, while I’d be the one who takes over if it rains and you need to change plans.
Very similar to what I do with my husband - so every Sunday I sit down with him and we tell each other these are my non-negotiable blocks where I really need you to help with the baby. It is a balancing act for sure. So tactically how do you make this model work?
My wife typically has a bit more flexibility with her clients because she owns her business, and again, since she’s very organized she normally gives me heads up and we can try to make the best call.
My calendar is a bit more hectic and unpredictable because I work for a large, fast moving firm.
The other day Luly had a two-hour workshop which she had planned far in advance, so my baby and dog had to crash a couple of unplanned last-minute Zoom calls. Most people are fine with, and understand that at some points you’re multitasking.
For most dual-career households with young kids, I feel the only way to make this work is by being both flexible and open at home and work. I think it is important, to be honest, and authentic about the challenges you're facing and ask for that flexibility. Like you know I may need an hour or so in the middle of the workday but that doesn't mean I won't get the work done. Without flexibility, I think it is hard to make this work.
I think it's a two-way street. The way I see it is, employers have historically asked for flexibility when something urgent comes up and you have to work all night, or ask to adjust your vacations to accommodate a project’s delivery. I think it’s fair for employees to ask for that flexibility too. As long as it’s reciprocal, it’s a healthy relationship.
I also think it’s really important to be authentic and transparent with your colleagues about your situation. I always tell people that my apartment can get noisy, a lot of time on calls they will hear a child crying or a dog barking, sometimes both. I’ve mastered the mute button for sure, but life is life, and for better and worse it’s all blended right now.
For priorities, a mentor gave me great advice before coming back to work: as a parent you are always juggling many balls and you need to know that some balls are crystal and others are plastic, and you need to get good at telling them apart. You WILL drop the ball at some point, so you better know which ones will break and which ones you can just pick up later. This concept applies for both your personal and professional lives.
Another thing to remember, is that you cannot be perfect 100% of the time in EVERY aspect of your life. It’s a waste of energy and a recipe for burnout.
I am glad you are saying that because the world keeps asking us to maintain these unattainable standards when it comes to raising a child. There are days when I feel constantly judged.
Totally. We obviously always want the best for our child, for example, we did baby-led weaning when we started solids. To make it work, instead of cooking every meal from scratch, we cook in batches and freeze it. In the beginning we were cooking everything the day of and it was a nightmare because you need to cook for yourself, the baby, clean the mess you and the baby left behind. What should take an hour took two or more.
Point is, it's amazing to give her fresh food every day but it is not sustainable or possible and she'll throw half of it all over the place anyway. In that sense you need to adjust your standards and find ways to make this more sustainable and manageable, while being generally at a good level of satisfaction for everyone involved.
One bad tendency in society I’ve noticed since becoming a dad, is that everyone feels comfortable judging or giving opinions on how “good” of a parent someone else is. It’s not cool or healthy, you probably have no idea what they are going through in their lives, and there is not only one way to be a good parent, either.
I hear you, this is good advice. What is some advice you would give to men who are on the cusp of becoming parents?
Remember that at the end of the day you and your partner need to be aligned in what you're doing and the decisions you are taking, and nobody’s opinions really matter but yours. Be confident in what you're choosing and don't be super harsh on yourself.
Acknowledge that mothers tend to be a lot more critical of themselves than fathers, for a number of reasons, including the patriarchy and unfair societal expectations which can be damaging to women. Don’t invalidate their fears and insecurities, listen, and ask how you can help them move forward.
Be sure you’re there not only there for your children, but for your partner too. She needs to know you’re her biggest advocate, that you appreciate what they do for your family, and that you always have her back, as an equal.
Finally, if you have the privilege of being able to take paternity leave, please do so! I cannot stress enough how important and transformative it’s been in our lives.
Quick-fire Questions:
What’s the best thing you have watched recently?
My wife and I both love documentaries, we recently saw the short NYT documentary Framing Britney Spears. It’s an interesting and uncomfortable watch precisely about how unfair societal systems damage women, even those in “power”.
What’s the best thing you have read recently?
I recently read the Vanishing Half by Brit Bennet for a book club at work. It’s an interesting read with topics around race, identity, and the lies people tell.
What’s the best thing you have listened to recently?
I love The Daily, always listen to it while doing my chores. If you don’t care for the news, listen to their longer Sunday episodes. Always a treat!
I also relax listening to Retronauts; I enjoy video-games and these guys are great researchers and historians who put together amazing content for those interested in the space.
I would love to hear from you, feedback is always welcome!
And if you happen to know an inspiring working parent who should be featured in a future edition (or if you yourself are one) - please do get in touch.
Disclaimer: All views expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer
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