The Coffee Chat (#42)
My conversation with Mo Banjoko - Financial services consultant, Women In Payments Canada Rising Star 2022 and mom to two pre-teens!
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Hi there 👋🏽
There are lots of reasons why people journal – one reason I love doing it is because it lets your current self go back in time and meet your past self. Over the years I have had multiple transformative experiences, none has come close to becoming a parent. Me in 2019 was in some ways a wildly different person with very different beliefs and motivations than me in 2023.
Back in 2019 I had tunnel vision and I was certain that the only way to play any game was to win it and the idea of what winning meant was very clearly defined – show me a mountain and I will climb it. In a lot of ways, I was someone who felt that happiness and fulfillment was something that could be won – almost akin to being on a quest within a game running after the next external marker of success ($ in bank, the next promotion within x years, etc.). You collect enough points and you won. But won from whom? And why? These were questions I did not even think of thinking. I was just doing.
Gradually over the last few years I felt the things that were in my peripheral vision have now gotten sharper.
I am still deeply ambitious and driven and at times I still want it all. But I have also learned to ask myself questions like – am I truly designing the life for myself that I want given there can never be a deferred life plan? What is greatness - is it just narrow professional success in the conventional sense or something more? Why do I even want this “greatness” - achieving it will do what? And then what is the cost of achieving that “greatness” – am I willing to make the trade-offs and pay the price / make the sacrifices that are needed to achieve it?
I don’t have answers at this point. Just questions and a deep desire to find these answers.
☕ Now, on to today’s coffee chat…
Meet Mo Banjoko
I met Mo during my MBA days and always found her to be an extremely thoughtful, interesting and caring person. I also knew she was a mom to two kids while she was a full time student in an intense program - I never fully appreciated what that meant.
Professionally Mo is a passionate leader committed to empowering others, fostering work-life balance, and promoting positive experiences for women as seen in her roles as Global Lead of Women@EPAM and co-chair of a Women’s Networking Circle while at CIBC.
She is also a member of the Open Banking Initiative Canada and the Black North Initiative's Sponsorship & Mentorship Committee. In 2022 she was recognized by the Women In Payments Canada organization as its Rising Star!
Below is my conversation with Mo…
Please tell us a little bit about yourself and your family
I'm Mo based out of the GTA, and my partner Biola recently joined me in Canada. We have 2 kids, a boy and a girl who are pre-teen. To a lot of people my daughter, feels like a mini version of me - She's sassy, confident, and knows exactly what she wants, or at least she thinks she does. She's always asking questions and displays a curious nature, which I find fascinating. One challenge we've encountered is that, in typical African households there's a tendency to discourage children from questioning adults. However, we're striving to give our children more freedom to explore their curiosity. Sometimes, my daughter makes statements that catch me off guard, and I can't help but wonder if she understands the implications of what she's saying. In those moments, I must pause and reflect on how to guide her. I ask her how she would feel if someone said or did the same thing to her, and this helps her gain a better understanding. It's a continuous process, but I believe we're making progress. On the other hand, my son is more reserved. While he enjoys playing, he tends to be more introspective. Recently, he has started expressing himself more, and I appreciate being able to glimpse into his thoughts and feelings. It's important to acknowledge that they are their own individuals with unique perspectives. Ever since the pandemic normalized hybrid work, I've had the opportunity to spend more time with my children than usual. This has allowed me to learn so much more about them, their preferences, and how they react to various situations. Though it can be challenging at times, overall, parenting has been a rewarding experience.
I began my career as an auditor and spent a few years PwC. Then I decided to pursue my MBA at the University of Toronto, which is where we met. After completing my MBA, I had the opportunity to work in payments at CIBC. I really enjoyed it because it allowed me to explore new frontiers and be part of transforming the payments infrastructure in Canada. It was exciting to be part of the movement towards digitalization and bringing Canadian payments into the 21st century. I learned a lot about how things work in this industry, including systems, regulations, and all the intricacies involved.
Unfortunately, in Oct 2002 there was a restructuring at CIBC, and I was impacted. This setback prompted me to reflect on my next steps. I knew I wanted to stay in the payments industry, but I needed to figure in what role. Luckily, my former boss found me on LinkedIn, and we had a conversation that led to my current position at EPAM Systems. At EPAM I have been working on fascinating projects like the building of a real-time clearing and settlement system for Canada which has been a lot of learning but also a lot of fun. My role also allows me to explore various aspects, such as understanding how payments touch non-FIs, how fintechs and credit unions are adapting to stay competitive, how various FIs are preparing for open banking, and potential impact of all these changes on the Canadian economy. I find these different pieces of our industry quite intriguing, so overall, I can't complain. Professionally I am in a place where I am enjoying myself.
I remember when we first met, you were pursuing your MBA. Can you tell me a bit about that experience? Leaving your children back home while you came to study abroad must have been challenging. How did you navigate that decision as a mother? I know even dropping off my child at daycare sometimes makes me feel guilty, but at the same time, I appreciate the help it provides so I can focus on other things that are important to me and fulfill me. Can you walk me through your experience of leaving your kids behind and coming to Canada to study?
Yes, it was indeed a difficult decision to make. When I was planning to come to school, I meticulously organized everything, including spreadsheets for living expenses and childcare costs. After considering tuition, fees, rent, and childcare expenses, it became clear that the amount I would spend on childcare would be substantial. My husband also reminded me that we didn't know where exactly I would end up working after school, and he felt it would be better for the kids to have stability at that time. Our daughter was only one year old when I started my MBA, and we didn't want to disrupt their lives too much. Taking all these factors into account, it made sense for me to leave them with my partner. He has always been hands on and involved so I was confident he would be able to manage with support. We had a lot of support from family, friends, and even hired help when needed. Once we had a clear plan and an established life in Ontario, it made more sense for them to come and join me here.
I see. So, it was a decision you both made together, considering the circumstances...
Yes, it was a decision we made together after careful planning. We worked out a schedule for visits, as we knew it would be essential for the kids to spend time with both of us. Initially, we all came together when I started school, spending the summer as a family. Then, before my MBA officially began, they went back to Nigeria, and I joined them during the Christmas break. The following summer, they came to visit me in Canada for about a month, and then I went back to Nigeria again in December. However, the ultimate plan was always for them to come and live here with me once I finished my studies. So, when they finally came, we had already prepared everything, allowing them time to adjust and settle into their new environment. We even connected them with friends who had children of similar ages to ease their integration into the community.
This is so interesting, and I am sure at times felt very challenging too. Now since you started working you have had both your kids with you. Back in Nigeria your husband had family and paid help and while he has been there emotionally for you all yet physically you have probably had to do quite a bit - manage 2 kids and a full-time career! So, in some ways, you were almost like a single working mom to two children. How was that? I am sure you have had to make some trade-offs. How was that entire experience of trying to raise two kids by yourself, especially in those pre-Covid days when you also had a daily commute to Toronto every day?
It was hard. First thing I had to find was good childcare. I was able to find one not too far from my house, so that was helpful. And then I had friends who lived close who were listed as emergency contacts in case I got stuck at work or something happened. They were helpful in picking up the kids and being my support system. So, I had to have all that set up. But then the key trade-off for me was I couldn't do a lot of things I wanted to do professionally at the time. It initially seemed impossible. I couldn't stay at work later than 4:35 because I needed to catch the train and pick up the kids on time. Once I got home, I had to shift gears from work to helping them, especially with adjusting to school and extracurriculars.. It was a lot of change and a difficult learning curve.
It sounds like you had a lot on your plate. How did you manage everything?
It was a challenge. I tried to attend as many of my son's teacher meetings as I could to stay updated on his progress and my partner stepped in whenever he was in town. I also had to prioritize my time and make difficult decisions about what I could commit to and what I couldn't. I learned to find a balance and accept that I couldn't have everything at the same time. Eventually we hired a live-in nanny that was a great help because it allowed me more time to focus on other tasks. I also had to learn to ask for help and delegate responsibilities. It was a journey, but I found ways to work around it.
That sounds like quite an experience and very different from so many other individuals who might have their partner or family with them. Shifting gears, a bit, I know you mentioned during the introduction that your previous organization, CIBC, went through restructuring and there were layoffs in Oct 2020. In the moment I am sure it would have felt so very challenging. This year unfortunately has also seen so many folks being let go across organizations. Looking back what are some of your reflections from that period?
It was a challenging time for sure. We had to re-evaluate our finances and know how much time I could afford to be out of work. It was a lot to handle, but thankfully, the organization provided some support services like career counseling and a severance package. Initially, it was overwhelming, but with the support of my partner and taking the time to process everything, I was able to figure out what I wanted to do next. It involved networking and exploring different industries to find new opportunities. but I think the hardest part was you know, like the first few weeks ...basically not falling apart in front of my kids! I was pretty upset and had to work through so many emotions, mostly negative but I still needed to show restraint in front of them because I had to be there for them as mom.
One thing that I did was explain to them what had happened. I told them - Oh for a little bit you're not going to see mommy working but nothing in your life is going to change. Everything will still the same. I got a lot of hugs and cuddles out of it. And, you know, I also tried to spend that time with the kids. We had movie nights established where every Friday we would have popcorn, and one of them will pick what we're going to watch on Netflix that night. It was also during COVID so we couldn't really go anywhere. Sothis period gave me time to be able to pay more attention to what exactly they're doing in school, helping with school projects. It wasn't a long time, about 6-7 weeks, but in hindsight it was nice to have that time.
Yes, I can imagine how in the moment it must have felt so hard but now when you look back you are like wow I had free time! As a parent, even on weekends, you're essentially working all the time because you're taking care of your children, leaving very little time for yourself. How do you prioritize self-care and avoid burnout?
One thing I try to do when I start feeling frustrated with the kids is to step away and take a few minutes for myself. I ask them for some time without needing my attention, usually around 30 minutes, and during that time, I reflect on why I'm getting upset. Children will be children, and sometimes I realize that their behavior is normal, and I shouldn't be losing my temper. This allows me to recalibrate and find a more patient approach.
That sounds like a helpful strategy. But how do you manage your time when you're under pressure and running out of time?
When I feel overwhelmed and pressed for time, I remind myself that complaining won't solve the problem. I focus on identifying the specific tasks I need to complete and find solutions to get them done. For instance, if I'm running out of time at work, I may ask my manager for help or delegate some tasks so I can prioritize and finish the urgent ones. It's about finding practical solutions rather than dwelling on the stress. My partner has also been super helpful since he has been around. When I have projects that would be busy, he steps in and picks up my slack so that I can focus better, and I do the same when he has a busy workload.
That sounds like a great approach. Taking a break to regain your composure and finding solutions to manage your time effectively is crucial. What are some activities or hobbies you engage in to relax and bond with your children?
Absolutely. Even though I don’t go out a lot – I am a homebody, I try to incorporate my own hobbies and interests into our family time. For example, I enjoy watching Korean dramas and I'm learning the language. So, I sometimes watch a few episodes with my kids, sharing something I like with them. We also have movie nights where we sit down and enjoy funny cartoons or movies together. It's a great way to relax and have fun as a family. With my partner around we have expanded our watchlist to include anime.
It's great to find activities that everyone can enjoy and create lasting memories together. Now, moving on to advice for new or soon-to-be parents, what suggestions would you give them? And is there any common advice you think they should ignore?
One piece of advice I would give is not to be too hard on yourself. Every child is different, and while there are parenting books and resources available, there is no one-size-fits-all approach. It's a process of trial and error, learning what works best for you and your child. It's important to listen to your children and be open to feedback, even from them. Just as adults don't want their feelings dismissed, we shouldn't dismiss our children's feelings either. It's essential to acknowledge and validate their emotions while also teaching them right from wrong. Understanding that our children are unique individuals, separate from ourselves, helps us adapt our parenting style accordingly.
So, I would advise new parents to be open-minded, do their research, and find what works best for their family. Avoid comparing yourself to others and their parenting styles, as what works for one child may not work for another. And remember, it's okay to make mistakes and learn from them. Parenting is a continuous learning experience.
That's fantastic advice! Acknowledging the individuality of each child and being open to feedback are indeed crucial. It's also reassuring to hear that making mistakes is a part of the journey. Is there anything else you would like to share or discuss before we conclude our conversation?
I think we've covered a lot. I would just emphasize the importance of patience and understanding in parenting. It's not always easy, and there will be challenging moments. Taking the time to communicate with our children, listening to their perspectives, and adapting our parenting styles accordingly can make a significant difference. Cherishing the precious moments and the growth we experience as parents is essential. So, to all the parents out there, embrace the journey and remember to enjoy it along the way.
Quick-fire questions:
What’s the best thing you have watched recently?
Rise of the Phoenixes - Chinese historical drama on Netflix
What’s the best thing you have read recently?
Smart but Scattered by Peg Dawson & Richard Guare
What’s the best thing you have listened to recently?
Archetypes by Meghan - The Stigma of the Singleton with Mindy Kaling
🤓 Open tabs…
(I have modeled this section after those “open tabs” that we all have with a few (okay 30-40) interesting links that we promise we will eventually get to one day. These are the links that I had open for sometime that I finally got to …)
⭐The Parents Saying No to Smartphones
How you help them learn to be present, in a task or with a relationship, is one of the top challenges of our generation (as parents). Part of that is going to be saying no.
⭐Experiences Won’t Make You Happier Than Possessions
You will be happier if you spend your money on experiences rather than possessions… or so says the modern truism, supposedly proven by psychological science. Should we be more skeptical of pop psychology and generalizations?
Nearly every time I play tennis, I melt down spectacularly. Why do I keep coming back for more?
📖 My private thoughts from my very public diary…
(My Twitter use has drastically gone down, but there are over 1000s of tweets so I still have a long run way before I run out of content for this section)
I would love to hear from you, feedback is always welcome!
And if you happen to know an inspiring working parent who should be featured in a future edition (or if you yourself are one) - please do get in touch
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