The Coffee Chat (#43)
My conversation with Isabella Song - Senior Risk Manager at a big bank and mom to 2 human kids and 2 fur kids!
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Hi there 👋🏽
If you're anything like me, you're someone who thrives on productivity and getting things done. But let's face it, always being in the "do mode" can have unintended consequences. We become so focused on checking off our to-do lists and optimizing our productivity that we forget to slow down and simply be.
Now, don't get me wrong. There's nothing inherently wrong with being driven and accomplishing our goals. However, I've come to realize the importance of training my brain to embrace moments of stillness and find joy in the present.
Personally, I've discovered that pure silence doesn't quite do the trick for me. I needed a more active approach to slow down and appreciate the beauty of the everyday. Whether it's engaging in pretend play with a child, cherishing bedtime cuddles, or delighting in the simple act of petting my dog, these are the moments that truly bring me happiness.
One practice that has truly made a difference for me is activating my five senses to ground myself and capture the essence of a moment. It's as simple as asking myself a few questions:
In this moment…
What am I seeing?
What am I hearing?
What am I smelling?
What am I tasting?
What am I feeling through my skin?
By consciously engaging with my senses, I've found that I can fully immerse myself in the present and cultivate a sense of mindfulness. It's a journey of learning to appreciate the small things and find gratitude in everyday experiences.
If you, too, struggle with mindfulness and yearn for a change, I invite you to give this practice a try. Take a moment each day to pause, breathe, and explore your surroundings through your senses.
☕ Now, on to today’s coffee chat…
Meet Isabella Song
As women, more often than not, it feels like the career progression clock is in direct conflict with our biological clock. While that is not entirely untrue, a little bit of self-advocacy can always help. I wanted to learn a little bit more about the person behind this post.
As two women with busy careers and lives, it took us only 10 months to find a 30-mins window for a chat :)
Below is my conversation with Isabella…
Please tell us a little bit about yourself and your family
I came to Canada about 11 years ago to pursue my graduate program. I have a background in mathematics and statistics. I moved here to reunite with my boyfriend, who is now my husband. We started our small family with a cat, then got a dog. As time went on, we had a baby, another dog, and gradually expanded our family with another child! So now I have a three and a half-year-old and a nine-month-old baby as well as 2 dogs!
Currently I work at TD Bank as a Senior Risk Manager and my husband works in business development at a startup.
Wow, that must keep you busy. How do you manage everything with such a full house?
It can be a challenge at times, especially with two young children and pets. Communication is key for us. My husband and I always talk about what's going on in the household and support each other. For example, when it comes to managing the dogs and the baby, I find creative ways to exercise the dogs while also taking care of the baby. Example right now - I am walking my 2 dogs, have my baby in the stroller and am talking to you. We've learned to adapt and find solutions that work for our family.
We've had to make adjustments along the way. When our first child was born, it was a big change for us. We had to figure out how to manage everything effectively. We realized that teamwork and open communication were crucial. If there was a behavior issue with our child, for example, we would discuss it and come up with a plan together. We've also worked on training the dogs to be cooperative. It's an ongoing process, but we find ways to make it work.
It is a learning curve and introducing small changes makes it more manageable. We have slowly gotten to a point where we are this big family.
It sounds like you have a great system in place. Which is commendable. So important to have that in place - your personal operating model which lets you focus on other aspects of your life, like your career. And I actually want to now talk about that - a particular moment in your career. I remember you being featured in a story on LinkedIn about getting promoted while being pregnant. Could you tell us more about that experience and the reflections you've had since then?
Ah yes. So I was doing pretty well in my current role and my direct manager thought I was well positioned for a promotion but because of an upcoming maternity leave, I didn’t consider myself when the opening came up. The fact that I was planning to my maternity leave made me feel that it would be an unreasonable ask for the organization.
This narrative changed when my leaders asked me: “will you apply for this role if the maternity leave is not a factor in this consideration?” Without hesitation, my mind was telling me a resounding “yes”.
So I wondered what really stopped me from this career progression?
I realized that I was disqualifying myself from a job I'm qualified for and interested in, solely based on being pregnant.
I volunteered for Women in Leadership at TD for many years and thought myself well-educated about the unconscious biases. But my efforts were often focused on how women are viewed by the society, not sufficiently on how I view myself as a woman. In retrospect, I pushed myself hard when returning from first maternity leave as I wanted to prove that I could balance family and work as a working mom. (Of course, much of the success should be attributed to my husband.) And this time I initially considered the opening would be a missed opportunity for me because of some inconvenience to others.
Subconsciously, did I doubt my own competency as a working mom? Did I give myself a fair chance for career progression? Am I an ally for myself?
I’m fortunate to be surrounded by walk-the-talk leaders like Jia Liu, Andres Masmela, and Callum Mair. They cleared my doubts that limited myself, and more importantly, exemplified how to be true allies. Sometimes, the effective way to drive changes is to be the change oneself. We should be our own allies first.
It's unfortunate that sometimes we internalize biases and underestimate our own abilities. Your story highlights the importance of recognizing and challenging those biases. It's also a testament to the organization's commitment to promoting inclusivity and supporting working parents. Being a parent can be a transformative experience and it is wonderful to see organizations support people who are on that journey. Speaking of transformation, what has parenting taught you about yourself?
Parenting has taught me that there is so much I don't know and that I can be wrong sometimes. One example that comes to mind is how our second child is so different from our first, even though we approached parenting in a similar way. It humbles me and reminds me to be open-minded, adaptable, and willing to learn from new experiences. Parenting is a lifelong journey of trials and growth, and it's okay to make mistakes along the way. Being humble and open-minded are valuable qualities that I believe are critical in both my role - as a mom and as a manager!
You are obviously someone who is doing a great job playing both these roles, what advice would you give to other women who may be struggling with balancing their family life and career aspirations? How can they find creative ways to make it work?
One of the key factors for me has been having a supportive partner. My husband and I work as a team, and he has taken on the primary caregiver role for our older child. It's important to find ways to divide responsibilities and support each other. Efficiency and effective time management are crucial. We try to plan and organize our schedules to ensure both work and family obligations are met. Before my maternity leave, we made arrangements to handle household tasks and caregiving, allowing me to focus on work during that time. It's about finding a balance that works for your family and being supportive of each other's goals and responsibilities.
Quick-fire questions:
What’s the best thing you have watched recently?
Videos of my_aussie_gal. I followed this account for years and witnessed the growth and passing of Secret and now the growth of Promise. It’s such a loving family and always reminds how talented dogs can be and how important they are as family members.
What’s the best thing you have read recently?
Principles by Ray Dalio. The cycle of learning described in the book really stuck with me. It’s important to be radically open minded.
What’s the best thing you have listened to recently?
Flower by Jisoo. My 3.5 year old loves it! She can do the signature dance move too.
🤓 Open tabs…
(I have modeled this section after those “open tabs” that we all have with a few (okay 30-40) interesting links that we promise we will eventually get to one day. These are the links that I had open for sometime that I finally got to …)
⭐The Myth of the Broke Millennial
Every generation faces financial challenges, including some that its parents’ generation did not. Within every generation, there is hardship, and Millennials are no different. But all in all, this is a generation on the cusp of middle age that looks successful, not lost. So why does the idea persist that Millennials have gotten screwed economically? Why is the narrative around Millennials still so negative and sometimes angry?
Incomes and wealth are not just objective numbers—there is a large element of perception involved in whether someone thinks they are doing well.
Human beings are hardwired to care deeply about status, and we assess it in two different ways. At any given moment, we look around to see how we’re doing compared with our peers. And we reflect on our own past and future status as well: Are our lives getting better? Are we better off than our parents, and will our children be better off still? Both of these forms of status affect our well-being. A number of factors inherent in modern society may have pushed many Millennials toward a distorted view of each.
⭐Go Ahead, Try to Explain Milk
What these experts were trying to avoid was categorizing milk as a “food”—the way that most people on Earth might, especially in industrialized countries where dairy products command entire supermarket aisles. “Overwhelmingly, when we think about milk, when we talk about milk, we think of nutrition,” says Katie Hinde, an evolutionary biologist at Arizona State University. That’s not the wrong way to think about it. But it’s also not entirely right.
The milk that mammals make is undoubtedly full of the carbs, fat, protein, vitamins, and minerals newborn mammals need to survive. And, across species, much of it does resemble the creamy, tart-tangy, lactose-rich whitish liquid that billions of people regularly buy. But to consider only milk’s nutrient constituents—to imply that it has a single recipe—is to do it “a disservice,” German told me. Mammalian milk is a manifestation of hundreds of millions of years of evolutionary tinkering that have turned it into a diet, and a developmental stimulus, and a conduit for maternal-infant communication, and a passive vaccine.
Artist Anna Belenkiy has turned our much-loved Disney princesses into women going through motherhood.
The illustrations send out a far more realistic message, that not everything is a fairy tale.
📖 My private thoughts from my very public diary…
(My Twitter use has drastically gone down, but there are over 1000s of tweets so I still have a long run way before I run out of content for this section)
I would love to hear from you, feedback is always welcome!
And if you happen to know an inspiring working parent who should be featured in a future edition (or if you yourself are one) - please do get in touch
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Hi Rashi , I love reading your content but I find there's a bias against stay at home moms/dads when you only interview working parents. Stay at home parents are inspiring too...it takes a lot more to be an attuned parent who is physically and emotionally present and they commit to it with love or desperation...just a thought!