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The Coffee Chat (#49)
My conversation with Sarah Stockdale - Founder of Growclass, host of The Growth Effect, a Globe and Mail podcast, Author of We Need To Talk About This and a Mom!
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Hi there 👋🏽
If you have a little human in your life then it is that time of the year again, everyone is down with the flu! When I became a mom someone told me, when you send your kid to daycare remember, this is what your kid will bring back from daycare:
10% of the time it is cute art work
20% of the time it is dirty clothes
70% of the time it is the plague
Oh the truth hits hard.
☕ Now, on to today’s coffee chat…
Meet Sarah Stockdale
Sarah is the Founder of Growclass, an award-winning Growth Marketing Certification and community of Founders and Marketers. Prior to founding Growclass Sarah helped led growth teams for Tilt (acq by Airbnb) and Wave (acq by H&R Block.
Besides being an entrepreneur Sarah is also a very popular content creator - she is the Host of The Growth Effect, a Globe and Mail podcast and the Author of the popular millennial newsletter We Need To Talk About This.
I am so thrilled that Sarah very generously offered me her time and shared her reflections on parenting and work for the wonderful readers of this newsletter!
Below is my conversation with Sarah…
Please tell us a little bit about yourself and your family
I'm the founder and CEO of a company called Growclass where we work with mostly women and marginalized folks to help them to build growth marketing skill sets to get into higher paying tech jobs or start their own businesses. Prior to starting my own company I spent my entire career working in tech startups - I was one of the first employees at a company called Wave that was acquired by H&R block and then I built the international growth team for a company called Tilt that was acquired by Airbnb. Post that I spent a couple of years consulting, because when you have a couple of early stage startup reps under your belt, you burn out! I was no different, so I consulted for a couple of years till I regained my energy and in May 2020 decided to start my own company.
May 2020 seems like a very interesting time to start a new company…
It sure was! So in February 2020 I fired all of my consulting clients and started my company in May of 2020 - Both of which were two totally crazy things to do. Once I launched the company my focus was on running and growing it. Felt things were going well and in April of 2022 i had a baby!
Wow the last few years have been very transformative for you - becoming an entrepreneur, becoming a parent. Both are very intense experiences…
It was hard! Initially I thought I would have about a six month buffer time to figure some things out but got pregnant right away. I was very lucky that I'd had a team member who had been with me since the consultancy days, who had helped me build Growclass and who was going to take over for me as I was gone. As any founder of young business knows you can't really take a full 12-18 month mat leave. I took five and a half months and even during that I was sort of working, which is not ideal.
I also had a pretty wild pregnancy - for the last three months of my pregnancy, I wasn't able to walk as my pelvis separated. I also went through perinatal depression.
So at the period of time where it was most important for me to plan for my business, I was also physically and emotionally out of commission. I was just lucky to have a very phenomenal team which kept things afloat. When I did come back I certainly had to readjust to have the space to think like an adult.
So what did being a parent teach you? What is something you've learned about yourself?
Oh wow, there's been quite a shift in my approach to things! Parenthood has made me more patient and less reactive to information or bad news. I've become noticeably more chill, a trait nobody would have associated with me in the past, especially those I've worked with. Even my pediatrician recently called me a chill mom, which surprised me.
In both business and life, I've gained a significant level of calmness. Another change is the perspective shift that comes with being responsible for shaping someone's entire life during their childhood. While my ambition has increased since having my son, the priority now is ensuring a fulfilling childhood for him. It's a crucial responsibility, and it has altered the way I approach my goals.
Now, everything is intertwined with creating an enjoyable, creative environment for my partner, my son, and myself. It's about showcasing the possibilities of building something for oneself. This responsibility is significant, and I approach it with much more gratitude than I did during my pregnancy. Initially, I thought I could balance having a baby and remaining intensely focused on my business, and in a way, I still am, but the priorities have shifted.
In some ways it is like broadening the aperture of ambition, right? Instead of it just being one narrow focus on one thing you know understand that success is multi- faceted and so is the idea of ambitious
Totally, I am deeply committed to my business and deeply to raising my kid.
But time is limited and so is energy! How do you like manage your energy? How do you get the space, the bandwidth and the energy to be present for both these pursuits?
I definitely had to change my expectations of my own productivity, especially in the early days. Like last night, my son decided to scream from 1 am until 2:30am for no apparent reason that we could figure it out. So you wake up and you're you know, feeling a bit different than you would if you had like a solid normal night's sleep. So I offer myself a lot of grace in terms of the strict deadlines I would set for myself before my pregnancy
For example, previously, I wrote a personal newsletter every Wednesday at 6 am without fail. I once wrote it with a kidney infection! Now, due to changed evenings and reduced energy levels, I might release it twice a month, if that. After my son goes to bed, I don't have the same creative energy. It has made me more productive during the limited hours I do have.
Tactically what I have done is a few things. Recognizing my creative energy in the mornings, I avoid scheduling meetings then. Meetings happen in the afternoons. I reserve Mondays and Fridays exclusively for meetings, using the time to create and work on the business. I've outsourced tasks like managing my inbox and accounting to my administrative assistant, as those drain my creative energy and I have ADHD so those things are just hard for me! This outsourcing allows me more space, considering my limited time.
You mentioned ADHD, I would love to go there if you are comfortable? I suspect some aspects of parenting become more challenging with it?
For sure let us talk about it! So many adults don’t even realize they have it.
Luckily, I attended a conference before becoming a mom. While talking to someone recently diagnosed with ADHD, I recognized many aspects from my childhood and life that resonated with me. I was the kid with the messiest locker, lacked object permanence, and struggled with neurotypical behavior. At the conference, she asked to see the inside of my bag, prompting me to consider ADHD as a possibility.
After discussing it with my therapist, she affirmed my suspicions, noting that many entrepreneurs are neuro-atypical and thrive outside traditional office environments. In 2021, I was officially diagnosed, underwent the necessary processes, and got properly medicated. This preemptive step, taken before motherhood, proved crucial.
Had I not addressed my ADHD, the overstimulation of motherhood, including the noise, would have been overwhelming. While I still face challenges, understanding my needs and having proper support helps. I acknowledge the privilege of having access to such support, recognizing not everyone does. Knowing I'd likely struggle more than the average parent, especially as a woman in her 30s discovering ADHD after having a baby, I proactively established a support system.
I'm fortunate to have a partner who takes on organizational responsibilities, handling tasks like booking appointments and managing extracurriculars. His competence in adulting eases the emotional labor traditionally falling on mothers.
The partnership is so critical. I don't think you can be a dual career couple unless both step in and play the hands on parent role.
This is a life hack but more women should encourage their partner to take a solo paternity leave. My husband took his five month paternity leave where he was solo parenting during the day. Any kind of mental load resentment I had from my mat leave, he was then able to experience that fully and understand our son's cues, understand his schedule, understand how to put him to sleep, understand how to soothe him. So all the things that fell disproportionately on me because I spent the most time with the baby in the initial few months, then shifted. That made our relationship stronger and the division of parenting labor a lot more equitable than most of the folks that I talked to who are in dual career relationships. I know a lot of women struggle with that when they get back to work, trying to do everything and it's not functionally possible. There's there's just far too much load put on women.
Also when I am talking to women in their 20s I tell them choose your partner very carefully because this decision is going to be really important when you're 35 - how involved this person is, how dedicated they are as a parent is going to be one of the key determinants of how happy you are in your relationship.
The other thing this does is normalize being a parent, being ambitious and working. It is hard to change the culture when a lot of men don’t full understand what it takes and the skills you acquire
Moms are so bloody powerful and dope! They are such an asset to any organization they join and make phenomenal leaders. For too long women who become mothers have been penalized. It is high time we change that. I appreciate you helping normalize the combination of ambition and parenthood, especially for moms!
Quick-fire questions:
What’s the best thing you have watched recently?
I loved The Fall of The House of Usher, it’s haunted, queer Succession and it’s perfect
What’s the best thing you have read recently?
I’m reading Tomorrow Tomorrow and Tomorrow and it’s living up to all of the hype
What’s the best thing you have listened to recently?
I love If Books Could Kill, a podcast debunking popular airport bestseller books— the Freakonomics and Outliers episodes are particularly interesting
🤓 Open tabs…
(I have modeled this section after those “open tabs” that we all have with a few (okay 30-40) interesting links that we promise we will eventually get to one day. These are the links that I had open for sometime that I finally got to …)
⭐Women Don’t Wear Masks: Gender Differences In Halloween Costumes And Why They Matter
"Costumes for girls and women differ from those for boys and men in some predictable ways, but researchers have found they also differ in ways you may not realize. Did you know women’s and girls’ costumes are rarely supplied with a mask?…researchers would have to go through several pages of costumes in the women's section of the on-line store to find a costume that wasn't sexualized in some way. How far did they have to look in the men’s section? Typically, the first costume they viewed was not sexualized in any way.”
⭐What Mothers on Career Breaks Wish Employers Knew
New research on ambitious women who have downshifted their careers finds that many are not necessarily leaving due to a lack of support or feeling pushed out; rather, they want to spend time with their kids and not miss milestones. This pull factor, often a nonnegotiable one, warrants employers to examine if they need to make another fundamental accommodation to career trajectories: for the mothers who just want to take a break…Open up the dialogue past ‘Why is there this gap?’ to ‘Tell me about some experiences away from the paid workforce that helped you develop skills or interests that align with this opportunity.’
⭐History is in the making
Though we tend to see history as just one political event after another, it’s technology and ideas, not politics, that change our lives the most. History should reflect that.
📖 My private thoughts from my very public diary…
(My X (Twitter) use has drastically gone down, I am now more active on Threads)
I would love to hear from you, feedback is always welcome!
And if you happen to know an inspiring working parent who should be featured in a future edition (or if you yourself are one) - please do get in touch
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Disclaimer: All views expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer